Josi (O-Josi-O) (eris_devotee) wrote in a_twistedstitch,
Josi (O-Josi-O)
eris_devotee
a_twistedstitch

x-posted to my personal journal

If someone vocalized that she had a problem with a US-based crochet magazine publishing the pattern of a non-US based designer - what would you think?

Would your feelings about the complaint/complainer be different if the exception was about a magazine including a gay or lesbian designer? a Muslim designer?

What if it was a UK-based magazine and the complaint was about including US designers?
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I'd have no problem with the designer's nationality (or other status), so long as the terminology of the pattern was consistent with the rest of the magazine (US terminology for a US magazine, UK for UK).

I own a few Brit-published crochet patterns, and while I can translate them, I know when I pick up that book that the patterns need work. Inconsistency within the same publication would be, imho, very confusing.
I would agree with this.
I don't know whether I would be uncomfortable with a US-based magazine publishing the pattern of a non-US based designer -- it would depend on a whole lot more specific details of the situation.

But I do know for sure that I am uncomfortable comparing categories of identity / discrimination as if they are interchangeable.
I don't know whether I would be uncomfortable with a US-based magazine publishing the pattern of a non-US based designer -- it would depend on a whole lot more specific details of the situation.

What other information would be pertinent? The point of my questions was that the *only* criteria upon which a criticism is issued is based on the national origins of the designer. And then I asked how someone's feelings might change if the same exception was taken, but over similarly arbitrary (meaning: unrelated to their ability to write a pattern) aspects of a person.

But I do know for sure that I am uncomfortable comparing categories of identity / discrimination as if they are interchangeable.

Why? I always use the "substitution test" when I evaluate for bigotry/arbitrary discrimination, because sometimes it is the only way to reveal the underlying nature of a comment to those who do not otherwise notice it. It can show when someone has marginalized any group of people based on criteria that doesn't relate to the criticism.

Some of the other pertinent information might be ... how prevalent are US-only/US-focused/US-based magazines in this subject area? Was the magazine created specifically for the purpose of creating a place that U.S. patterns could be published? What is the experience of U.S. pattern writers in trying to get published outside the U.S.?

Your "substitution test" implies that all discrimination is interchangeable, and trivializes the oppression experienced by gay people and Muslims. Whether a person gets a pattern into a magazine is not in any way comparable to the types of violent hatred visited upon the heads and bodies and lives of gay and lesbian people and Muslim persons.

But bringing those types of discrimination in is a way of co-opting the life-threatening seriousness of heterosexism and racism. We all know -- because of decades of men and women risking their lives -- about the struggles endured by gay and lesbian persons just to live their lives without being physically attacked. We all know about the spike in violent anti-Muslim discrimination since September 11. And if the experiences of heterosexism and racism were limited to whether a pattern got published in a magazine, they wouldn't carry very much rhetorical weight.

I was comparing discrimination based on country of origin to other arbitrary discrimination, and the getting-published-in-a-crochet-magazine aspect is incidental - it could be *any* paying job that someone was criticized for taking based solely on where they were born. Why isn't that something of note to you?

Are you dismissing the realities of my Irish and Italian grandparents, who were not considered white? When my grandfather got a job in the plumber's union he was repeatedly asked "who did you marry?" because SURELY no one had lost their fool mind enough to hire a freakin WOP.

A pattern getting published is a JOB, and should be considered on par with being in the military, or getting hired as a teacher, and I think it shows your own prejudices that you choose to marginalize my career.

Re: corrected italics

kmd

8 years ago

Re: corrected italics

kmd

8 years ago

Re: corrected italics

kmd

8 years ago

The economic aspects of discrimination are, by the way, the most damaging to any group of people. The easiest way to keep a group down is to deny them equal access to jobs.
what exactly are the specific details of a situation wherein you think it would be acceptable to deny publication based purely on one's country of origin?

and, how exactly does that type of discrimination differ from gender/race/religion, etc.? as an american who is woman of color, foreign born, and not christian, i see no difference in what form the discrimination comes in, be it "go back to your own country," or "girls can't do X," or "you killed christ". it's all based on ignorance and hatred, regardless of the flavor. no one group of oppressed gets to claim the greatest oppression. (though, i might give the award to a blind, deaf, parapalegic, jew of american indian heritage who only spoke spanish, or something and gave birth to a half-black child.)
what exactly are the specific details of a situation wherein you think it would be acceptable to deny publication based purely on one's country of origin?

Well, pretty much exactly the details of this situation, as I wrote in a comment before I even knew what those details were. This is a magazine created for and focused on publishing patterns from a particular area of the world. The OP is not from that area of the world.

no one group of oppressed gets to claim the greatest oppression.

Not even the OP is claiming that this scenario is an instance of oppression based on her country of origin. Especially given the fact that she did, in fact, get published and get paid. It was just the mean comments of other persons after the paycheck arrived that apparently warranted a comparison to the experiences of gay people and Muslims.
actually - the paycheck has yet to arrive, but that's another story entirely...

croshay

8 years ago

And... you still don't know the whole story, yet you are commenting on it.

The magazine might call itself the only UK-based magazine or whatever, but they hired 2 American acquisition editors *on purpose*. I wonder why? I wonder why the publisher deliberately chose to high people with US connections? They chose 2 women whose *credentials* were the US connections that they did not have, being based in the UK and all.

NOW DO YOU GET IT? But I wanted to deal in the abstract because the entire story is far more involved and political and points to how many publishers just use people (their designers and their customers), and how Inside Crochet is no different. Every person in the first 2 issues of Inside Crochet was asked personally to be a part of it - BY THE PUBLISHER, and now they are apologizing instead of standing behind the designers who met ridiculous deadlines so that they could get off the ground...

but again, here I just wanted people's feelings about nationalism, in the abstract. I wanted to know how/why people felt they related to other forms of arbitrary discrimination (not oppression). Am I not allowed to compare forms of discrimination if one of the examples *also* falls into the oppression category? Why? Because *you* said so?

eris_devotee

8 years ago

gookachu

8 years ago

eris_devotee

8 years ago

The only thing I care about is whether it is a good pattern or not. It never even occurred to me to wonder about a designer's country of origin or their sexuality when looking at a crochet magazine. I only look at the pattern.

In your example, if they have a problem with a US based crochet magazine publishing a non-US designer, I would think they were kinda stupid. Crochet is a universal craft. I would think the more varied the contributions, the better.
This is pretty much my opinion as well. To the OP: You provided material the magazine requested, and nationalistic reactions are a rather foolish, IMO. The magazine ducking their own agency in the process is very bad business, as I'm sure there are people, such as you, who will choose not to submit to that magazine again, dropping their pool of talent.

In addition, I suspect I won't exert any energy into trying to read the magazine if they are going to act that way toward US citizens.
as someone from another country of origin than the one i live in, i see no problem with it.

actually, i love japanese irish crochet patterns. they're some of the best out there. and, they tend to use international graphs for their patterns, so they're pretty easy to figure out.
I covet so many Japanese crochet patterns I've seen! My birthday's soon and I'm strongly tempted to ask for one or two Japanese crochet lace books -- I'm sure between my residual knowledge of the language and my Japanese dictionary, I can figure them out well enough to work them.

To the OP, I don't give a darn where a pattern designer comes from if their work is solid. I mean, at most I get sadface when I find a truly beautiful pattern and discover that it's not available in the country I live in.